STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
OK. Deirdre mentioned my home state of Indiana, which is one of the states where Republicans are talking of redrawing congressional district lines, although they seem to be divided on that question. Dozens of Republican lawmakers from Indiana visited the White House yesterday, and their meeting touched on redistricting. One of them was Republican state Representative Andrew Ireland, who represents some of the outlying areas of Indianapolis, the capital. Welcome to the program, sir.
ANDREW IRELAND: Hi. Good morning. Good to be with you.
INSKEEP: Glad you're with us. Now, I just want to do a little bit of math here. During Trump's time, the last decade or so, Indiana has been roughly a 60/40 state, about 60% Republican. In Congress, you've got 7 of 9 Republican seats already, which is way more than 60% Republican. And the idea's to make it even more Republican, maybe unanimously Republican. Do you really want to make it 9 out of 9?
IRELAND: Well, listen, I think that there's a strategic disadvantage at the national level for Republicans in Congress because of, you know, partisan gerrymandering in other states like our neighbor Illinois. And right now we have a leader in our party that I think has, you know, recognized that, you know, issue. And, OK, we can sit on our laurels and say that, you know, we have this map that, you know, the Princeton Election Lab, for example, rates as one of the least gerrymandered in the country. Or, you know, we can get in a fight and we can level the playing field. And I think that's the conversation we're having now.
INSKEEP: OK. You're making an argument, as Democrats are, that the other guys are doing it more, but I want to focus just for a moment on the state of Indiana. You were quoted as saying Democrats, quote, "have no business representing us in Washington." Is that a thing you said?
IRELAND: That's right. And I'll say that because, you know, you look at Indiana and the political makeup, yes, we're 60/40. But also, Democrats have not won over the average Hoosier in a statewide vote for more than a decade in a single office. I think that says a lot about where the party is - that it no longer connects with the average Hoosier voter. There's something to be said that we should have congressional maps that, one, reflect the average Hoosier voter - they don't, you know, really kind of swing hard to one party or another, but actually just swing to the basic average within the state. And then if Democrats can't win that, I mean, that's on Democrats and the fact that they're not focusing on policies and issues that matter.
INSKEEP: Although I was looking at those recent elections, and you're right, Republicans have won big in this era in Indiana. Previous decades, they did better - Democrats did better, but Republicans are dominant now. And yet it would seem that more than a million Hoosiers disagree with you because that's the number that voted for Democrats for president or for governor in 2024 - well over a million. That would include a majority of people in Indianapolis, the city you represent. Are you dismissing the wishes of your own constituents?
IRELAND: No, I'm not. And I'll tell you - I mean, two, take Massachusetts, for example. It is - also has nine congressional seats. The political makeup is almost exactly the same, 60/40, but Democrat to Republican. But in Massachusetts, the same for all of New England, is entirely a Democrat congressional delegation. Indiana, you know, again, if you're going to level the playing field and we're going to play, you know, by a system that really evens out kind of the partisan split in Congress, I don't think there's anything then wrong for Indiana to take a similar approach.
INSKEEP: I think you can make the case about Massachusetts, and I think about that sometimes. If you're a Massachusetts Republican, it's got to be very, very frustrating, but it sounds like you want the same thing for Indiana.
IRELAND: Well, and I'll tell you this, too. I mean, candidly, I would like to see a world where Congress steps in and does its job to rein in partisan gerrymandering. But until Congress does its job, I think states have an obligation to really protect the interests of the majority, and in particular, you know, in aggregate, the national scale. And right now, you know, candidly, states like Indiana have kind of sat by and said, even though Illinois is doing this, even though California, Maryland, other states - that we're going to sit back and try to do it the right way. And I respect that. I think there's something to be said for that. But at the same time, you can't put your partisan - you know, you've kind of been, I think, at a strategic disadvantage on a national level and really marginalized your own voters in the process.
INSKEEP: You know, I do have to mention there are a number of Democratic-led states where they've put these nonpartisan processes in place. In fact, California's one. That's what they're now backing out of in response to the redistricting in Texas. It's not like Democrats have made no effort in this side. But I'm just thinking this through. If Democrats should win one election in Indiana, which I grant is unlikely now, should they have the right to just shut you out of power forever?
IRELAND: Well, let me push back first on saying that - you know, that we have these nonpartisan commissions, and, yes, they're nonpartisan in name. But I think if you look at the political affiliation of the individuals that staff them, rarely are they truly nonpartisan. But I will say, yeah, of course, you know, if Democrats win elections in Indiana, then, you know, they are given the constitutional right to draw maps. And again, I would encourage them to really focus on issues that matter to Hoosiers. Then maybe they would have a little more luck at the ballot box. But they really haven't. They're out of touch with the average voter, and that's why they're in the predicament they're in now.
INSKEEP: Indiana state Representative Andrew Ireland. It's been a pleasure talking with you. Thanks.
IRELAND: Thank you. Transcript provided by ½ûÂþÌìÌÃ, Copyright ½ûÂþÌìÌÃ.
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